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Àðòåì
Ìîäåðàòîð


: 10.03.2003
: 8295
: Russia, Ufa

: , 6, 2006 6:12pm     :

L-vira ():
Ó íàñ â Òàòàðñòàíå ôåìèíèñòêàì - òðóäíåå âäâîéíå Øèðîêàÿ óëûáêà , ìîæåò, ïîýòîìó ÿ èõ çäåñü è íå âñòðå÷àëà Ñìåõ
Íî íà ðàáîòå êàæäûé äåíü ïðèõîäèòñÿ ñòàëêèâàòüñÿ ñ îäíèì æåíîíåíàâèñòíèêîì, ê òîìó æå þðèñòîì (÷òî ñ÷èòàþ õóæå âäâîéíå Øèðîêàÿ óëûáêà )
Îí íåíàâèäèò àáîëþòíî âñåõ æåíùèí, ïðåçèðàåò, ãëóìèòüñÿ è èçäåâàåòñÿ Neutral íåäîñòîéíûé òèï Î÷åíü çëîé


À êàê ãëóìèòñÿ?
White Owl
Øòàòíûé çàíóäà


: 10.03.2003
: 2452
: USA, New York City

: , 6, 2006 7:03pm     :

Àðòåì ():
L-vira ():
Îí íåíàâèäèò àáîëþòíî âñåõ æåíùèí, ïðåçèðàåò, ãëóìèòüñÿ è èçäåâàåòñÿ Neutral íåäîñòîéíûé òèï Î÷åíü çëîé

À êàê ãëóìèòñÿ?

À çà÷åì òåáå? Ïåðåíèìàòü îïûò áóäåøü? Óëûáêà
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Slava
ÍËÎ


: 10.03.2003
: 4182
: at this moment Stamford CT

: , 6, 2006 7:39pm     :

L-vira ():
Ó íàñ â Òàòàðñòàíå ôåìèíèñòêàì - òðóäíåå âäâîéíå Øèðîêàÿ óëûáêà , ìîæåò, ïîýòîìó ÿ èõ çäåñü è íå âñòðå÷àëà Ñìåõ
Íî íà ðàáîòå êàæäûé äåíü ïðèõîäèòñÿ ñòàëêèâàòüñÿ ñ îäíèì æåíîíåíàâèñòíèêîì, ê òîìó æå þðèñòîì (÷òî ñ÷èòàþ õóæå âäâîéíå Øèðîêàÿ óëûáêà )
Îí íåíàâèäèò àáîëþòíî âñåõ æåíùèí, ïðåçèðàåò, ãëóìèòüñÿ è èçäåâàåòñÿ Neutral íåäîñòîéíûé òèï Î÷åíü çëîé

Ó íåãî íàâåðíîå äâå áîëåçíè
- ñïåðìîòîêñèêîç
- íåäîå..èò

Îòñþäà ñëåäñòâèå. Ñëèøêîå áîëüøîå äàâëåíèå ãîðìîíîâ íà ìîãçè ïîòîìó êàê íèêòî íå äàåò è äåâàòü íåêóäà. Ñìåõ
_________________
Good judgment comes from expirience.
Expirience comes from bad judgment
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Àðòåì
Ìîäåðàòîð


: 10.03.2003
: 8295
: Russia, Ufa

: , 6, 2006 11:37pm     :

White Owl ():
Àðòåì ():
L-vira ():
Îí íåíàâèäèò àáîëþòíî âñåõ æåíùèí, ïðåçèðàåò, ãëóìèòüñÿ è èçäåâàåòñÿ Neutral íåäîñòîéíûé òèï Î÷åíü çëîé

À êàê ãëóìèòñÿ?

À çà÷åì òåáå? Ïåðåíèìàòü îïûò áóäåøü? Óëûáêà


Êîíå÷íî! Óëûáêà
anuta
Æèòåëü ôîðóìà


: 02.11.2005
: 237
: Irkutsk-Daytona Beach-Philadelphia

: , 8, 2006 6:42am     :

[quote="Helen_NJ"]
Àðòåì ():
à íåêîòîðûå çàíèìàþò àêòèâíóþ ïîçèöèþ íåíàâèñòè ïî îòíîøåíèþ ê ìóæ÷èíàì. Ýòî è åñòü ôåìèíèñòêè.


Ôåìèíèçì <> ìóæåíåíàâèñòíè÷åñòâî. Ïðîôåññîð Ïî-ìîåìó òóò âîîáùå ó áîëüøèíñòâà îðàòîðîâ âåñüìà ñëàáîå ïðåäñòàâëåíèå î òîì, ÷òî òàêîå ôåìèíèçì íà ñàìîì äåëå. Íå çíàþ Íà Wikipedia âîò äàíî î÷åíü õîðîøåå îïðåäåëåíèå (íå âçèðàÿ íà òî, ÷òî êîìïåòåíòíîñòü ýòîãî èñòî÷íèêà â ïîñëåäíåå âðåìÿ ñòàâèòñÿ ïîä ñîìíåíèå):

I absolutely agree with Helen. Feminism has nothing to do with the hate of men.
It’s all about defending women’s rights.
There had been a strong backlash that set back the feminist movement in the 1970-80s, (thanks to R. Nixon and R. Reagan who are both in part responsible for it) and somehow along the way feminists turned out to be: “men haters” and “ ugly lesbians”. That’s all that people know about the great movement. How sad. Women and the whole society in general benefited tremendously from the movement. I am not going to list all benefits but these few seemed to be important enough: right to have an abortion, opportunity to get paid maternity leave and child support, opportunity to take your child to a day care facility, protection from sexual harassment and etc. I have to say that there is still much work to be done; for example, there is not enough good quality day care centers in the USA and not every company provides paid maternity leaves but at least some steps are made in that direction.
As for “if anyone has met real feminists”, I did. There are two women in my department who claimed to be feminists, there is nothing particularly ugly about their personas: both are nice, polite women, one is married and has two kids. I am not sure if they get mad when men opens doors for them, but after all, these little things are not important and have little to do with the actual idea of feminism.
And one more thing, as far as I see there is a real problem with the women’s rights in Russia. It’s great Masha that you have not faced gender discrimination, but there are SOOOO many women especially not very young who simply can’t get a job. All those numerous job ads call for “young females”. Here we have discrimination by age and gender and that’s truly disgusting.
I am a sorry, guys for my somewhat long response in English. Ñòûäíî I am on vacation in FL and typing this seating in a hotel. I just couldn’t help it when saw this topic. Øèðîêàÿ óëûáêà
Masha
Æèòåëü ôîðóìà


: 18.01.2004
: 464
: Izhevsk, Russia

: , 8, 2006 5:52pm     :

anuta ():
And one more thing, as far as I see there is a real problem with the women’s rights in Russia. It’s great Masha that you have not faced gender discrimination, but there are SOOOO many women especially not very young who simply can’t get a job. All those numerous job ads call for “young females”. Here we have discrimination by age and gender and that’s truly disgusting.

Âñå âûøåñêàçàííîå äëÿ ìåíÿ âåñüìà èíòåðåñíî è ïîçíàâàòåëüíî. Íî, ïî-ìîåìó, íà ñ÷åò ðàáîòû ïîëíàÿ ÷óøü. ß ñ÷èòàþ, ÷òî ëþáîé, êòî õî÷åò íàéòè ðàáîòó è ïðèëàãàåò ê ýòîìó ìàêñèìóì óñèëèé, îáÿçàòåëüíî åå íàéäåò. Äà, ìíîãèå ïðåäïî÷èòàþò áðàòü íà ðàáîòó ìîëîäûõ è ñèìïàòè÷íûõ ëþäåé, íî åñòü îãðîìíîå êîëè÷åñòâî ðàáîò, ãäå âîçðàñò è âíåøíîñòü íå âàæíû.
Andrew
Ãëàâíûé òðåïà÷


: 01.03.2003
: 10421
: Èðêóòñê, RU -> Los Angeles, US

: , 9, 2006 8:41am     :

Masha ():
ß ñ÷èòàþ, ÷òî ëþáîé, êòî õî÷åò íàéòè ðàáîòó è ïðèëàãàåò ê ýòîìó ìàêñèìóì óñèëèé, îáÿçàòåëüíî åå íàéäåò.

Ñîãëàñåí.

Masha ():
Äà, ìíîãèå ïðåäïî÷èòàþò áðàòü íà ðàáîòó ìîëîäûõ è ñèìïàòè÷íûõ ëþäåé, íî åñòü îãðîìíîå êîëè÷åñòâî ðàáîò, ãäå âîçðàñò è âíåøíîñòü íå âàæíû.

Øàõòåð, íàïðèìåð Ïîäêàëûâàþ
_________________
Àíäðåé Ãåðàñèìîâ
anuta
Æèòåëü ôîðóìà


: 02.11.2005
: 237
: Irkutsk-Daytona Beach-Philadelphia

: , 11, 2006 7:40pm     :

I am not sure what do you Masha mean by “nonsense” but here is some statistics: “In 1998 women constituted an estimated 70 percent of Russia's unemployed, and as much as 90 percent in some areas”. (Anna Roper, Russian women in the post-soviet era; Gender and inequality in the former Soviet Union, Stetson University, 2003). I don’t have recent figures but these ones speak for themselves.
And really, how do you measure the “maximum of efforts?” It seems to me that it could be different for different people. Surely younger people have more energy than older folk and that can reflect on their ability to land a good job. And generally I don’t support the concept of “Social Darwinism” but then again it just my humble opinion… Óëûáêà
Helen_NJ
Æèòåëü ôîðóìà


: 13.11.2003
: 1539
: NC, USA

: , 12, 2006 3:41am     :

Masha ():
ß ñ÷èòàþ, ÷òî ëþáîé, êòî õî÷åò íàéòè ðàáîòó è ïðèëàãàåò ê ýòîìó ìàêñèìóì óñèëèé, îáÿçàòåëüíî åå íàéäåò. Äà, ìíîãèå ïðåäïî÷èòàþò áðàòü íà ðàáîòó ìîëîäûõ è ñèìïàòè÷íûõ ëþäåé, íî åñòü îãðîìíîå êîëè÷åñòâî ðàáîò, ãäå âîçðàñò è âíåøíîñòü íå âàæíû.


À ÿ âîò ñ÷èòàþ, ÷òî îòäàâàòü ïðåäïî÷òåíèå ìîëîäûì è ñèìïàòè÷íûì ëþäÿì äîëæíî áûòü â ïðèíöèïå íåçàêîííûì, êàê è ëþáàÿ äðóãàÿ äèñêðèìèíàöèÿ. Ïî÷åìó, íàïðèìåð, ÷òîáû ïîëó÷èòü ðàáîòó ïðîãðàììèñòà 50-ëåòíèé äÿäåíüêà äîëæåí ïðèêëàäûâàòü áîëüøå óñèëèé, ÷åì ïàöàí÷èê ïîñëå êîëåäæà? Èëè ïî÷åìó ñìàçëèâàÿ äåâèöà äîëæíà èìåòü ïðåèìóùåñòâî ïåðåä ìàòåðüþ 3 äåòåé ñðåäíåãî âîçðàñòà? (Èìååòñÿ â âèäó, êîíå÷íî, ÷òî èõ ïðîôåññèîíàëüíàÿ êâàëèôèêàöèÿ îäèíàêîâà.)
    e-mail
Helen_NJ
Æèòåëü ôîðóìà


: 13.11.2003
: 1539
: NC, USA

: , 12, 2006 3:46am     :

FFresh ():
Ôåìèíèçì - ýòî êîãäà ñìîòðèøü ñåðèàë ïðî ëåñáèÿíîê.


Ýòî íå ôåìèíèçì, ýòî òî ëè âàì äåëàòü íå÷åãî, òî ëè ïî Ò íè÷åãî ëó÷øå íåòó. Ïîäêàëûâàþ

FFresh ():
È ïîíèìàåøü, ÷òî âñ¸ ÷òî îíè õîòÿò ñêàçàòü ïîêàçûâàÿ ÷òî æåíùèíû ìîãóò ëþáèòü äðóã äðóãà è îáõîäèòüñÿ â ïîñòåëè áåç ìóæèêîâ - ýòî ÷èñòîé âîäû ôåìèíèçì...


Íåò, ýòî, ïðîñòèòå, ÷èñòîé âîäû ãîìîñåêñóàëüíîñòü. Íå èìåþùàÿ íèêàêîãî îòíîøåíèÿ íè ê ôåìèíèçìó, íè ê êàêèì-ëèáî äðóãèì ïîëèòè÷åñêèì èëè îáùåñòâåííûì äâèæåíèÿì.
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Masha
Æèòåëü ôîðóìà


: 18.01.2004
: 464
: Izhevsk, Russia

: , 12, 2006 7:56am     :

Helen_NJ ():
Ïî÷åìó, íàïðèìåð, ÷òîáû ïîëó÷èòü ðàáîòó ïðîãðàììèñòà 50-ëåòíèé äÿäåíüêà äîëæåí ïðèêëàäûâàòü áîëüøå óñèëèé, ÷åì ïàöàí÷èê ïîñëå êîëåäæà?

Ïîòîìó ÷òî ïàöàí÷èê ïîñëå êîëëåäæà ìîæåò ïðèãîäèòüñÿ íàäîëãî. À 50-ëåòíèé äÿäÿ ëåò ÷åðåç 5 óéäåò íà ïåíñèþ. Íå çíàþ
Helen_NJ ():
Èëè ïî÷åìó ñìàçëèâàÿ äåâèöà äîëæíà èìåòü ïðåèìóùåñòâî ïåðåä ìàòåðüþ 3 äåòåé ñðåäíåãî âîçðàñòà? (Èìååòñÿ â âèäó, êîíå÷íî, ÷òî èõ ïðîôåññèîíàëüíàÿ êâàëèôèêàöèÿ îäèíàêîâà.)

Ïîòîìó ÷òî íà ñìàçëèâóþ äåâèöó ñìîòðåòü ïðèÿòíåé è åé íå íàäî áóäåò áðàòü êó÷ó áîëüíè÷íûõ, ÷òîá ñèäåòü ñî ñâîèìè 3 ïðîñòûâøèìè äåòüìè è îòïðàøèâàòüñÿ ñ ðàáîòû ïîðàíüøå, ÷òîáû ïîïàñòü íà ðîäèòåëüñêîå ñîáðàíèå/çàáðàòü äåòåé èç ñàäèêà.
Ýòî êîíå÷íî ïå÷àëüíî. Íî âñå ëþäè ýãîèñòû. È åñëè áû ìíå íàäî áûëî êîãî-òî íàíÿòü íà ðàáîòó, ÿ áû îòäàëà ïðåäïî÷òåíèå ìîëîäîìó/îé-ñèìïàòè÷íîìó/îé Ïîäêàëûâàþ
White Owl
Øòàòíûé çàíóäà


: 10.03.2003
: 2452
: USA, New York City

: , 12, 2006 3:01pm     :

Masha ():
Helen_NJ ():
Ïî÷åìó, íàïðèìåð, ÷òîáû ïîëó÷èòü ðàáîòó ïðîãðàììèñòà 50-ëåòíèé äÿäåíüêà äîëæåí ïðèêëàäûâàòü áîëüøå óñèëèé, ÷åì ïàöàí÷èê ïîñëå êîëåäæà?

Ïîòîìó ÷òî ïàöàí÷èê ïîñëå êîëëåäæà ìîæåò ïðèãîäèòüñÿ íàäîëãî. À 50-ëåòíèé äÿäÿ ëåò ÷åðåç 5 óéäåò íà ïåíñèþ. Íå çíàþ

Ê òîìó æå ïàöàí÷èêà ìîæíî îáó÷èòü è ñäåëàòü èç íåãî èìåííîãî òàêîãî ðàáîòíèêà êàê íóæíî. À äÿäüêó îáó÷èòü ÷åìó-òî íîâîìó íàìíîãî ñëîæíåå. Îí áóäåò íå ñòîëüêî âëèâàòüñÿ â ðàáîòó, ñêîëüêî èçìåíÿòü óñòîÿâøèéñÿ òåõíîëîãè÷åñêèé ïðîöåññ ïîä ñåáÿ è ñâîè ïðèâû÷êè.

Masha ():
Ýòî êîíå÷íî ïå÷àëüíî. Íî âñå ëþäè ýãîèñòû. È åñëè áû ìíå íàäî áûëî êîãî-òî íàíÿòü íà ðàáîòó, ÿ áû îòäàëà ïðåäïî÷òåíèå ìîëîäîìó/îé-ñèìïàòè÷íîìó/îé Ïîäêàëûâàþ

Ýòî íå ýãîèçì. Ýòî ïðàãìàòèçì.
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anuta
Æèòåëü ôîðóìà


: 02.11.2005
: 237
: Irkutsk-Daytona Beach-Philadelphia

: , 12, 2006 6:15pm     :

Please, don’t generalize. There are many young people who are lazy and not willing to learn new skills. What they do is they usually demand things: good grades, good salaries, higher positions and etc. without putting any effort into the process. Never mind they didn’t deserve any of it. And there are of course, older people who are willing to work hard and they are coachable enough.
As a matter of fact my best students are so called “non-traditional students”, usually older folk who are open to learning new things and they work very hard for their grades. It’s a pleasure to teach them.
In short, smart and successful employers hire their employees based on their qualification and ability to learn and utilize new skills if needed.
Andrew
Ãëàâíûé òðåïà÷


: 01.03.2003
: 10421
: Èðêóòñê, RU -> Los Angeles, US

: , 13, 2006 1:33am     :

anuta ():
Please, don’t generalize. There are many young people who are lazy and not willing to learn new skills.

Ñèñòåìà òàêèõ áûñòðî âû÷èñëèò è [êëàâèøà "Delete"].
_________________
Àíäðåé Ãåðàñèìîâ
Masha
Æèòåëü ôîðóìà


: 18.01.2004
: 464
: Izhevsk, Russia

: , 13, 2006 7:08am     :

Â÷åðà ñìîòðåëà ôèëüì îá àìàçîíêàõ. Ìîæåò òîãäà è çàðîäèëñÿ ôåìèíèçì? Êàê ìû óæå âûÿñíèëè ôåìèíèñòêè ïðîñòî áîðÿòñÿ çà ñâîè ïðàâà, íî íå îòâåðãàþò ìóæ÷èí. Âîò è âñÿêèå äðåâíåãðå÷åñêèå è äðåâíåðèìñêèå àìàçîíêè òàê äåëàëè. Òîëüêî ïî÷åìó èõ àìàçîíêàìè íàçûâàëè? Âåäü ðåêà Àìàçîí â Àìåðèêå, à åå îòêðûëè ïîçäíåå.
White Owl
Øòàòíûé çàíóäà


: 10.03.2003
: 2452
: USA, New York City

: , 13, 2006 2:56pm     :

Masha ():
Òîëüêî ïî÷åìó èõ àìàçîíêàìè íàçûâàëè? Âåäü ðåêà Àìàçîí â Àìåðèêå, à åå îòêðûëè ïîçäíåå.

Ýòîãî íèêòî íå çíàåò. Åñòü âåðñèè ÷òî ãðå÷åñêîå ñëîâî "àìàçîí" ïðîèçîøëî îò èðàíñêîãî hamazan - âîèí. Äðóãîé âàðèàíò ÷òî àìàçîí ýòî èñêàæåíîå ãðå÷åñêîå à-ìàçîñ - ãðóäü (ïî ìèôîëîãèè àìàçîíêè îòðåçàëè ñåáå ïðàâóþ ãðóäü ÷òîáû îíà íå ìåøàëà ñòðåëÿòü èç ëóêà). Åùå åñòü âàðèàíò ïðîèñõîæäåíèÿ ñëîâà îò à-ìàññî - òðîãàòü, íàìåê ÷òî àìàçîíêè íå ïîçâîëÿëè ñåáÿ òðîãàòü.  îáùåì âûáèðàé íà âêóñ, êàêàÿ èç âåðñèé òåáå êàæåòñÿ áîëåå ïðàâäèâîé Óëûáêà

À ðåêó íàçâàëè Àìàçîíêîé, ïîòîìó ÷òî îäíàæäû êîíêèñòàäîðû íàïàðîëèñü òàì íà ïëåìÿ â êîòîðîì æåíùèíû ñðàæàëèñü âìåñòå ñ ìóæ÷èíàìè. Âñå ïðîñòî Óëûáêà
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Àðòåì
Ìîäåðàòîð


: 10.03.2003
: 8295
: Russia, Ufa

: , 13, 2006 7:32pm     :

White Owl ():
À ðåêó íàçâàëè Àìàçîíêîé, ïîòîìó ÷òî îäíàæäû êîíêèñòàäîðû íàïàðîëèñü òàì íà ïëåìÿ â êîòîðîì æåíùèíû ñðàæàëèñü âìåñòå ñ ìóæ÷èíàìè. Âñå ïðîñòî Óëûáêà


À Amazon.com ïî÷åìó òàê íàçâàëè? Óëûáêà
White Owl
Øòàòíûé çàíóäà


: 10.03.2003
: 2452
: USA, New York City

: , 13, 2006 9:22pm     :

Àðòåì ():
White Owl ():
À ðåêó íàçâàëè Àìàçîíêîé, ïîòîìó ÷òî îäíàæäû êîíêèñòàäîðû íàïàðîëèñü òàì íà ïëåìÿ â êîòîðîì æåíùèíû ñðàæàëèñü âìåñòå ñ ìóæ÷èíàìè. Âñå ïðîñòî Óëûáêà

À Amazon.com ïî÷åìó òàê íàçâàëè? Óëûáêà

À ïîòîìó ÷òî Àìàçîíêà ñàìàÿ ïîëíîâîäíàÿ ðåêà â ìèðå. À amazon.com ñàìûé áîëüøîé èíòåðíåò ìàãàçèí.
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Masha
Æèòåëü ôîðóìà


: 18.01.2004
: 464
: Izhevsk, Russia

: , 14, 2006 10:15am     :

White Owl ():
Äðóãîé âàðèàíò ÷òî àìàçîí ýòî èñêàæåíîå ãðå÷åñêîå à-ìàçîñ - ãðóäü (ïî ìèôîëîãèè àìàçîíêè îòðåçàëè ñåáå ïðàâóþ ãðóäü ÷òîáû îíà íå ìåøàëà ñòðåëÿòü èç ëóêà).

Ouch!! Øîêèðîâàí

White Owl ():
À ïîòîìó ÷òî Àìàçîíêà ñàìàÿ ïîëíîâîäíàÿ ðåêà â ìèðå. À amazon.com ñàìûé áîëüøîé èíòåðíåò ìàãàçèí.

Ìîëîäåö, ìîçã! Nuts ëþáèøü?
R.E.M
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: 06.08.2005
: 508
: Novgorod The Great

: , 14, 2006 11:49am     :

:
ïî ìèôîëîãèè àìàçîíêè îòðåçàëè ñåáå ïðàâóþ ãðóäü ÷òîáû îíà íå ìåøàëà ñòðåëÿòü èç ëóêà

Ñîìíåâàþñü. Îíè íå èìåëè ïðåäñòàâëåíèÿ íè î íàðêîçå, íè î òîì êàê ðàíó îáðàáîòàòü, äà è çàøèòü â êîíöå êîíöîâ. Êàê âû ñåáå ýòî ïðåäñòàâëÿåòå? ß ïîíåìàþ, åñëè áû îíè ôèçè÷åñêè çàñòàâèëè ïðàâóþ ãðóäü íå ðàñòó, íî îòðåçàòü?! Ýòî òî÷íî âûìûñåë...
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Íå ïîíåìàþ çà÷åì çëîñëîâèòü, åñëè õî÷åøü íàñîëèòü êîìó-íèáóäü, äîñòàòî÷íî ñêàçàòü î í¸ì êàêóþ-íèáóäü... ïðàâäó.
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